Why is this lesion here on this cow? Your feedback please. Thanks!

Please tell us what you think about this lesion on this cow! On the backside/inside of hock we call it sandpaper hock! But this is on the front side... What can be the risk factors? Your feedback is welcome.

Comments (33)

Liza Bohlmann

Maybe the sandbox/bed is too small (short). Her hind leg when lying down falls over the edge and rubs against the edge of the bed. Maybe her own hoof (of the other hind leg) causes this abbrasion when she has to get up?

Nathalia Merino

Creo que son lesiones propias de diseño o manutención inadecuadas de camas, quizás la cama es demasiado profunda, el tamaño de la vaca es inadecuado respecto al tamaño de cama o el relleno de arena es insuficiente. Saludos desde Santiago de Chile.

Wilma

Beste Joep.Hier kom ik ook van deze plekken tegen bij de koeien.Zelf denk ik dat t schaafplekken zijn,die ze alleen maar kunnen oplopen in de ligbox.Ik denk.....wij hebben koolzaadstro in de box liggen en dat dat schuurt,er is een koe bij die t best erg heeft met andere woorden grote plek/wond aan t linkerachterbeen vrij bovenin,ik vraag t me ook af,zelf kan ik niet denken waar t eventueel anders aan kan liggen.ook zijn er verschillende koeien die t aan de buitenkant op de hak hebben kale plekken en die dan dik worden en uiteindelijk pust eruit komt(ontstoken dus.Denk zelf niet zacht genoeg liggen.Hoor t graag. Groetjes Gerrit en Wilma

Wilma

Oorspronkelijke tekst
Beste Joep.Hier kom ik ook van deze plekken tegen bij de koeien.Zelf denk ik dat t schaafplekken zijn,die ze alleen maar kunnen oplopen in de ligbox.Ik denk.....wij hebben koolzaadstro in de box liggen en dat dat schuurt,er is een koe bij die t best erg heeft met andere woorden grote plek/wond aan t linkerachterbeen vrij bovenin,ik vraag t me ook af,zelf kan ik niet denken waar t eventueel anders aan kan liggen.ook zijn er verschillende koeien die t aan de buitenkant op de hak hebben kale plekken en die dan dik worden en uiteindelijk pust eruit komt(ontstoken dus.Denk zelf niet zacht genoeg liggen.Hoor t graag. Groetjes Gerrit en Wilma

Predrag

Milking equipement ... in the process of milking ...

selçuk kuzucu

hi . hot factor or nail softening..

Elisabete Martins

is the bedding to hard so that the hind foot from bellow the cow (when she´s dow) presses agaist the wounded spot? Is the legth and depth of the bed OK?
Let us know then!
Regards from Portugal

Pjotr

The clean lesion on the inside, I would suggest is related to the milking robot. Possibly the arm attaching the liners to the teats is searching for right position and cow was nervous or over active when being milked. If it would be in the box when laying down, it would not be such a clean wound. The outer side is related, I think, to irritation caused by boxbedding, causing small penetrations in the skin and starts inflamation.... Also I would be interested in the why and how. So let me know in order I can be of help to farmers as well.

jon

darm probleem , jodium tekort

Danny

I have seen this on a few cows where the stall is too short. When the cow lays down, her uppermost hind leg comes out of the stall and the inside of the hock rubs against the corner of the kerb. A farmer here in Nova Scotia had to cull 2 cows for this reason just a month ago because the sores were too badly infected.

Jack Rodenburg

These lesions do seem to be a bit of a mystery. Although I am not all that confident that i have the answer, I am inclined to think the cow causes this wound herself when she is rising by catching the inside dew claw of the lower leg on the skin of the upper leg. When tie stall barns with stanchion tie up systems were common here in Canada 40 years ago, it was very common for cows, to rip open a rear teat with their own dew claws when rising. That is pretty good evidence that the dew claw comes close to the area in question and also that it can do damage to soft tissue. Longer stalls, more freedom for the head and better grip on the stall surface usually reduced the number of these "stepped on" teats.
Although there is not enough video to see much of the cow or the stalls, in this case I think it might be the cow and not the stall that is the problem. Looking at the video she has quite straight legs but her hoof is quite forward from the leg and her dew claws are quite prominent. As I say, i am not confident that it is the answer, but if it is just one or two cows that have this, it may be logical to look for the answer in the cow rather than in the barn, and in this case trimming and smoothing those two little toes on the back of the cows leg could be the solution.

Paul Langedijk

Relatief te kleine box met tekort boxvulling en een buis of rand achterin de box om de boxvulling ( die er dus niet in zit) tegen tehouden. Koe ligt/ hangt met bovenliggende poot over de achterrand.

Walt

If it is a loose bedded barn, bedding is low in stalls and inside of leg rubs on edge of curb. If it is a mattress barn, insufficient bedding on top of mattresses, possibly combined with a short mattress and high curb where again, the cow's upper leg chafes on the edge of the curb.

Damian Zajączek

Maybe the box is too short and rough.

Roger

I have seen plenty of medial hock rubs from cubicle discomfort but don't think I have seen this lesion before. Its very red so it is highly probably trauma. I would want to watch her in both the lying position, then when she stands

Jonthan Verkerk

It looks as if it is a younger animal therefore has less milk and mammery tissue which allows her to lie with her rear leg under herself. Therefore the lession will be caused by her own claw resting against herself. Only other question would be around her mobility. Has she had an injury or other reason for her to want to lay this way?

Muhammad Nadeem

I will love to know what is the problem I have no idea ?

Hasan Kuraloglu

selçuk kuzucu wrote:
hi . hot factor or nail softening..

Hasan Kuraloglu

robot arm or improper rubber hose

Ben

Perhaps the outside wound is aggravating the cow, but she cannot scratch or rub the outside, she can only raise her other dew claw to rub the inside of the leg. Once the skin surface is damaged, flies may be attracted to the wound and hence she will scratch it more, hence the more open wound. It would be best to diagnose after observing the cow whilst walking, sitting and standing in the parlour. The wound is fish so I am sure it is being regularly scratch or rubbed. The true culprit will reveal itself within 20-30 mins of observation.

Ben

My last post should say "the wound is fresh" predictive text got the better of me!

Piet Siderius

Kom deze wond ook zo nu en dan tegen. Jawel een wond, daar het snel(plotseling) ontstaat en vervolgens geneest zonder een therapie in te stellen. Ik heb een jaar geleden een foto van een verse wond opgestuurd naar de wijze dames en heren in Utrecht. Ook hier is men van mening dat het waarschijnlijk trauma is; robot, klauw, box?? De plek was na 3 a 4 mnd volledig genezen. Schuren valt dus wat mij betreft af. Het zou dan open blijven of erger worden.

Christoph Peter

Die Kante hinten an den Hoch-Liegeboxen ist zu scharf (insbesondere wenn eine Gummimatte verlegt ist) und die Liegeboxe zu kurz. Die Kuh streckt beim Liegen ein Bein hinten über die Kante heraus auf den Boden. Genau an der beschriebenen Stelle gibt es dann ein Schürfung.

Christian Pearse-Danker

I think this maybe caused by the inside lesion being linked to the outside hock damage shown giving a stiff joint/leg This in turn gives the cow a disability in using stalls as intended - more comfortable once down to stretch out her leg across the end of stall edge into passage thus causing inside leg to rub against hard stall edge. Also, abnormal getting down and up leg movements to compensate for stiff hock damaged joint. Stall bedding body abrasion issues need solving.
Please see photo top right Page 21 of "Feeding Signals by Jan Hulsen et al Lely Publication 2014 - loads of legs stretched into stall passage

Christian Pearse-Danker

Small addition:
The inside lesion appear as fresher damage than the outside hock rubbing damage - so the cow has 1st achieved a stiff joint form stall bedding issues that then caused her to change her laying behaviour, giving the now continuous inside lesion damage but reduced outside hock damage exposure(switching laying side?)

Marcelo Moreira Antunes

Probaly the small amount of sawdust!

Phil

I would look at milking equipment. If in a parlour, check where the auto take off arm is positioned. In a robot, is there a shiny piece on the equipment where the inside part of the leg will rub on it?

Carsten Houmann

The hock are swolen in front. It can be related to feeding. In 2014 we see less ADL in grass silage. That means a leck of structure. You can have a rumen acidosis. The swolen hock are infected and the cow have pain.
Then cow s don´t rise and lay normely. Cows went down to hard and get this outside damage.
Take care that the swolen hock don´t blow up into the shank. It can go to Mycoplasma.

Joep Driessen

Hi everybody, great interaction here and great ideas.
Outside hock damage is very multifactorial...
Also is the inside sandpaper hock damage on the most backward / inside hock bubble, were the skin is directly over the bone...
But this open wou d on the front side is less commen. Although I see it on more cows on one farm sometimes.... This one looks pretty fresh... Is it cutting instead of shaving/ sandpapering?
It will be likely the lame cows to have more trouble...
Is it then the due claw cutting or the inside claw of the other foot? More likely then back curbs or robots..
To be continued.... Please find more of these lesions and mail us some more example pictures... We will post them with your name!
Great to use this cowsignals network! Thanks again.

Ps: more info on thick hocks ( outside trauma) you can find in cowsignals
online video learning program

liz

I think this maybe caused by the inside lesion being linked to the outside hock damage shown giving a stiff joint/leg. This makes the cow clumsy when getting into and out of the cublices and also when she is lying down and also uncomfortable when lying there. This will cause her to be more prone to injury. Once she has an injury her health is challenged from the environment and if she is exposed to clostridia organisms in cow housing, then this means the wounds don't heal, only get worse. These organisms then increase in number challenging other cows in the herd. Stall bedding is key to a healthy environment in the cubicle house.

jon

I usually see this on lame cows, and have always thought it as a consequence of extended lying(maybe favouring one side).Hence causing a type of pressure sore/ bed sore.

Joep driessen

Excellent imput from all of you! Thanks.
I think it might be related to lame and weak cows.
But direct irritation can likely be done by inside of other hind claw!! Especially afterbting edge can be sharp like a knife...
Weak cows lay more on the side and you see claws in touch with inner hock. Keep looking and please keep sending us pictures and videos by wetransfer or email, so tigether we can educate the world!

Bruce Thompson

I see this from time to time on my cows. There's no robot, so can't blame that, the cows are outdoors grazing in fields for 9 months of the year so can't blame kerbs, stalling etc. It has to be either in the manner the cow lies or the way she rises in my view.

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